Quitting the Program
So in my last post i was on the brink of atheism. since then, quite a lot has happened. most recently i quit my bible study.
i was in a very exclusive bible study. it was by invite only and limited to people the bible study leader thought would seriously get into the bible. i don't think i realized how exclusive it was when i started. my wife and i were under the impression that it was fairly diverse; as there were a number of couples from different churches attending. we joined sometime around last july. it was going to be a sort of "inductive bible study" and we were going to dive deep into the scripture. and we did, often spending two hours and covering little more than a few verses.
i don't think i was supposed to change the way i did. they had no idea that i was reconsidering my faith all together and whether i wanted to be a christian. and really i just sort of kept quiet in the study.
that all changed a few weeks ago when i had just about had enough of it. they were talking about sin and using the most prime example of sin they could imagine, homosexuality. so i decided to say something about it. i told them that i thought that that issue, along with others wasn't nearly as air tight as they had thought. and so started three weeks of some of the most intense debate i've been a part of.
basically they weren't open to much of what i had to say and i wasn't open to much of what they had to say. they just wanted me to back everything up with the holy word or at the very least with some reputable bible scholars and i really don't care to. that's not because i couldn't it's just not my approach, and i know they wouldn't respect any reference i could produce any more than they could respect me.
and so that's what it came down to. respect. i argued that homosexuality wasn't necessarily a sin and that hell didn't necessarily exist and that there might be other ways to interpret the bible, but they would have none of it. i was just someone who was falling away from truth, from their truth. at one point they even tried to convince me that their combined intelligence should be a good resource to me in figuring things out. with their degrees and studies in intelligence and deep theological background there was really no reason for me to question them. so they thought. of course, i was supposed to cower in their greatness. because obviously my intelligence was of no consequence.
i don't think that they realized why i was even being a part of the debate. it wasn't to debate the fine points of theology or anything like that. i just wanted to see if they were open to different ideas, even if those ideas were irrational from their point of view. and so, admittedly i was mixing things up a bit, i was somewhat bombastic in my approach. for example, one of them mentioned something about hell and i said 'sure that makes sense, if you believe in hell'. that's probably the most tactless way i could introduce that topic, but i just wanted to see what would happen. at one point i think i started agreeing with every other thing they said. because for me, i can often find a way to agree with anything people say if i want to. it's just a matter of agreeing on a different level. so that's what i did.
i guess what i was trying to find out was if i could break all the rules of debate, agree with things inconsistently, fail to provide credible sources and all of that. i just wanted to see if there was anything left to their faith beyond that. because, i mean, there really should be something. should our beliefs really come down to argument and debate? should our respect for others really come to that? i wanted to know if they would really hold to all of that or if they would embrace someone who was questioning and show some love beyond the arguments.
i was told that arguing with a group of hard core christians was really a futile thing to do. they don't ever change their minds, they don't ever consider other options. i think i knew this but it was really important to me to see it for myself. i wanted to give them a chance to see things from another viewpoint. they even said multiple times that they wanted that too, but when i really had things to say, they just wanted to see an airtight scholarly case for that. and when i could give them that, then i was just intellectually inferior and my arguments were of no use.
this whole thing is so amazingly and completely and thoroughly sad to me! i think i'm starting to understand what it means to have an open mind. but what a closed mind they were convinced i had. i wasn't open to anything they had to say, they told me about the bible and told me with great passion about how all truth originates from the bible and how i just needed to read what says. it is just so simple, the bible just says this and it says that. why couldn't i just be content with what it clearly stated? why couldn't i just get with the program?
what i couldn't figure out how to say was that i really was open to understanding it was just that they weren't telling me anything new. I had heard all those arguments before and had argued them myself a hundred times. i couldn't get with the program because i no longer believed in the program.
and that's what it seems to have come down to. i can't really tell which of their beliefs are core to them and which ones are just about being with the program. it seems that modern christianity is presented as this one monolithic package. sure it's easy to get in the door and say the sinner's prayer, but you've only just begun. what happens is that sunday after sunday, study after study, you're given more and more things to believe that are part of the program. even worse, you're given increasing doses of fear to make sure you stay with the program. don't question it. don't even think about questioning it. if you do need to question it, well it better just be temporary and you need to just call it doubt. but everything will be ok as long as you return to the program.
it's late and i should really continue this in another post.
i was in a very exclusive bible study. it was by invite only and limited to people the bible study leader thought would seriously get into the bible. i don't think i realized how exclusive it was when i started. my wife and i were under the impression that it was fairly diverse; as there were a number of couples from different churches attending. we joined sometime around last july. it was going to be a sort of "inductive bible study" and we were going to dive deep into the scripture. and we did, often spending two hours and covering little more than a few verses.
i don't think i was supposed to change the way i did. they had no idea that i was reconsidering my faith all together and whether i wanted to be a christian. and really i just sort of kept quiet in the study.
that all changed a few weeks ago when i had just about had enough of it. they were talking about sin and using the most prime example of sin they could imagine, homosexuality. so i decided to say something about it. i told them that i thought that that issue, along with others wasn't nearly as air tight as they had thought. and so started three weeks of some of the most intense debate i've been a part of.
basically they weren't open to much of what i had to say and i wasn't open to much of what they had to say. they just wanted me to back everything up with the holy word or at the very least with some reputable bible scholars and i really don't care to. that's not because i couldn't it's just not my approach, and i know they wouldn't respect any reference i could produce any more than they could respect me.
and so that's what it came down to. respect. i argued that homosexuality wasn't necessarily a sin and that hell didn't necessarily exist and that there might be other ways to interpret the bible, but they would have none of it. i was just someone who was falling away from truth, from their truth. at one point they even tried to convince me that their combined intelligence should be a good resource to me in figuring things out. with their degrees and studies in intelligence and deep theological background there was really no reason for me to question them. so they thought. of course, i was supposed to cower in their greatness. because obviously my intelligence was of no consequence.
i don't think that they realized why i was even being a part of the debate. it wasn't to debate the fine points of theology or anything like that. i just wanted to see if they were open to different ideas, even if those ideas were irrational from their point of view. and so, admittedly i was mixing things up a bit, i was somewhat bombastic in my approach. for example, one of them mentioned something about hell and i said 'sure that makes sense, if you believe in hell'. that's probably the most tactless way i could introduce that topic, but i just wanted to see what would happen. at one point i think i started agreeing with every other thing they said. because for me, i can often find a way to agree with anything people say if i want to. it's just a matter of agreeing on a different level. so that's what i did.
i guess what i was trying to find out was if i could break all the rules of debate, agree with things inconsistently, fail to provide credible sources and all of that. i just wanted to see if there was anything left to their faith beyond that. because, i mean, there really should be something. should our beliefs really come down to argument and debate? should our respect for others really come to that? i wanted to know if they would really hold to all of that or if they would embrace someone who was questioning and show some love beyond the arguments.
i was told that arguing with a group of hard core christians was really a futile thing to do. they don't ever change their minds, they don't ever consider other options. i think i knew this but it was really important to me to see it for myself. i wanted to give them a chance to see things from another viewpoint. they even said multiple times that they wanted that too, but when i really had things to say, they just wanted to see an airtight scholarly case for that. and when i could give them that, then i was just intellectually inferior and my arguments were of no use.
this whole thing is so amazingly and completely and thoroughly sad to me! i think i'm starting to understand what it means to have an open mind. but what a closed mind they were convinced i had. i wasn't open to anything they had to say, they told me about the bible and told me with great passion about how all truth originates from the bible and how i just needed to read what says. it is just so simple, the bible just says this and it says that. why couldn't i just be content with what it clearly stated? why couldn't i just get with the program?
what i couldn't figure out how to say was that i really was open to understanding it was just that they weren't telling me anything new. I had heard all those arguments before and had argued them myself a hundred times. i couldn't get with the program because i no longer believed in the program.
and that's what it seems to have come down to. i can't really tell which of their beliefs are core to them and which ones are just about being with the program. it seems that modern christianity is presented as this one monolithic package. sure it's easy to get in the door and say the sinner's prayer, but you've only just begun. what happens is that sunday after sunday, study after study, you're given more and more things to believe that are part of the program. even worse, you're given increasing doses of fear to make sure you stay with the program. don't question it. don't even think about questioning it. if you do need to question it, well it better just be temporary and you need to just call it doubt. but everything will be ok as long as you return to the program.
it's late and i should really continue this in another post.